Charles R. Duncan, M.D., oral history interview, April 23, 1993

              
      DR. BROWN:	This is an interview today with Dr. Charles "Charlie" R. Duncan, who was president of the State Medical Association in 1987 and 1988. The interview  is being conducted by Dr. Laurie Brown  with the help of Dr. Allen Brown,
cameraman and this is at the Omni Hotel in Charleston,  South Carolina, during the 145th

Annual Meeting of the South Carolina Medical Association on April 23, 1993. Dr. Duncan,  I appreciate  your  coming  for this  interview.
DR. DUNCAN:	Thank you, Laurie, I am looking forward to it.

      DR. BROWN:	If you will, just give me a little background about where you were born and a little bit about your family, if you care to.
      DR. DUNCAN:    Okay.    I was  born  in  Raleigh,  North  Carolina,  in  October 1937. I didn't live there very long and moved  around  quite a bit.  Dad was in the Navy. He was a surgeon, a general surgeon, and is now retired on the coast of North Carolina.
My mother  was very active politically,  and I guess that some folks have said that must

be where I have gotten my political blood. I don't really think I have much of that She was very active in state PTA, was president of that, and was mayor of the city that I grew up in. My father was very active in organized medicine in that area at that time.
DR. BRO	Where did they come from, do you recall?

      DR. DUNCAN:     Well, my father was born in Clayton, North Carolina, which is just south of Raleigh . My mother was born in Franklinton, just north of Raleigh in Wade County North Carolina.
DR. BROWN:	Close by.


DR.DUNCANDR. BROWN:
education, schooling, etc.?

DR. DUNCAN:

Right.

And  where  did  you  grow  up  and  get  your  undergraduate



I grew up in the mountains  of Virginia.   Dad often went up


to a small town .... Bradford -- and started practicing medicine. We were there for a while after my father was in the Navy, and after the NAVY we went back there. I returned to North Carolina for my education. I went to Wake Forest  for one year.  Wake Forest,  at that time Wake Forest College on the old campus just north of Raleigh; and then moved in  1956 with  Wake  Forest  to  the  new  campus  in  Winston-Salem,   and  finished  my
undergraduate  education in  1959.


DR. BROWN: DR. DUNCAN: DR. BROWN:
medicine?

DR. D	CAN:

That is the undergraduate? Right.
Now,  how  did  you  decide  to  be  a  be  a  doctor,  to  study



Well, it seems it was something that I was always interested


m. My father is a physician, retired now, and I am sure that was a major influence. You know, people ask me this, and I do not ever recall my parents ever saying to me, "You will go to Wake Forest." That is where my father graduated.  Or,  "You will  go to medical school and be a doctor." It just kind of seemed like it always was, and so it just sort of seemed to be a natural progression, something that I was really  interested in. I had several other interests,  but kept coming back to medicine.

      DR. BROWN: In medical school were there any particular professors that you looked up to or who had an influence on you?
      DR. DUNC	Well there were, and I went to Bowman-Gray School of Medicine which is the medical school that is associated with Wake Forest University. The persons that were important to me I am sure few people in South Carolina really know. I have come to enjoy the tradition and the history of the Medical University and the stories that I have heard from all of my associates here in South Carolina that go back to MUSC; and we had our professors, too, that were that way. I remember Velda Hightower, for example, a surgeon who is now retired. He was supposed to be the fastest surgeon, the fastest gun at the university. He was the one of the slowest, most mild­ mannered persons, and somebody was talking to him one day about how fast he was in the operating room, and he said, "You know, I know I have that reputation, but am really not that fast. It's just that, if you notice, I do not ever do anything twice. I just take my time and always do it right the first time." And that was a big lesson to me. Then, Emory Miller in Medicine always had such a zeal for the truth and a passion for it, and a faculty much like I feel MUSC's faculty is, that by the way they practice their own medicine, the ethical standards that they have established for themselves as individuals just sort of permeated the university. Those kind of things are remembrances to me.

DR. BROWN: DR. DUNCAN:

How did you decide what you were going to specialize in? I don't know how that happened.  I have asked myself that


some, too. Persons have wanted to know why I didn't go into general surgery since my father was a general surgeon.  I don't know how to answer that.

DR. BROWN: DR. DUNCAN:

It's  difficult?

The ophthalmologist  that I   had – I started wearing my glasses

in the fifth grade -- was just an interesting person and had a number of conversations with me about ophthalmology and being an ophthalmologist.  I  just sort of became interested in that and just migrated there.

DR. BROWN: DR. DUNCAN:

You had your residency where?

I did my residency  at Bowman-Gray  School of Medicine in

the North Carolina Baptist Hospital in Winston-Salem. I did a straight surgery internship, and that is interesting because things have changed so much since then as far as emergency rooms are concerned. I did the straight surgery internship. There were four surgery interns and four medicine interns,  and for my first three months out of medical school I shared 24 hour rotations with the medicine intern. We each had 12 hours for the first three months. Anytime I had off in those first few months, I got off by getting one of my fellow surgery interns to cover for me  for a weekend. I would  pay him back during his three-month rotation. When I look and see what we have going on in the emergency room today, with the specialty of emergency room physicians and whatever.... One surgery intern and one medicine intern ran the emergency room at a busy teaching center 24 hours a day, and it was an experience.
DR. BROWN:	I can remember  such experience myself.   How did you end

up where you are?

      DR. DUNCAN: Well, a group of physicians, in fact a general surgeon in Greenville, South Carolina, approached me by mail and phone. married a girl from Greenville and they knew that I was in ophthalmology training. So they were talking in the dressing room one day about needing another ophthalmologist more ophthalmologists, and this general surgeon said, "Well, I know someone who is in training now, so let me get in touch with him."  So the general surgeon actually made the first contact and then introduced me to the ophthalmologists in the Greenville area who encouraged me to come there to practice.

DR.  BROWN: DR.  DUNCAN: D . BROWN:

And you have lived there ever since? Since  1967.
Now, would you care to tell me about your family?  You say

you married  a girl from Greenville.

      DR. D   CAN:   Yes, I am married  to a special lady, Pat, and I've  got some really neat kids. I've got a son who is in real estate in Raleigh, North Carolina; he graduated from NC State. Another son is in banking; he graduated from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill with a business degree, and then got an MBA there. Then, I have a son who graduated from Furman University and is a professional photographer now. And, another son who is a junior at the University of South Carolina, majoring in music theory and composition. I also have a daughter who just graduated from high school in June of this year.  She is going to Wake Forest University,  and right


now is thinking about going to medical school and studying psychiatry. She also said there would be no free services rendered to her family because her family was so messed up she wouldn't  have any time to earn any money if she saw all of her family.

DR. BROWN: DR. DUNC DR. BROWN:

No free services. No free services.
Do you want to tell me their names from the youngest to the

oldest?

      DR. DUNCA	Well,  the youngest  is Charles  R.,  III and then  Joseph  and Martin, Eric, and Charee.
      DR. BROWN:	Charlie, can you remember how you first became involved in organized medicine?
      DR. DUNCAN:	Well, I came to Greenville in 1967 and I just  sort of had this feeling  or  sense,  like  I think  many  people  had  then,  that  you just  joined  your  local
Medical Society and the State Medical Society and the AMA. I don't find that to be quite as true in this day and age as it used to be. It was just  something that I did because I thought that was what I needed to do. Then I started becoming active to some degree locally, involved with some of the committee works, attending meetings, and then, as far as really becoming active in organized medicine, I guess that started, I can't remember the year, but  in the early 1980's when I was chosen to represent the 4th District as a trustee to the Board of Trustees of the State Medical Society. Then, after a couple of years  of serving on the board,  I was asked to offer to be chairman  of the board.   The

person who is probably the most responsible  for that, or the two persons,  were the late Leonard Dougla51and Randy Smoak, who put a lot of pressure on me, too.  It was one of those things  that I really  did not go out looking for, but just  sort of fell into.   Then became chairman of the board and then ultimately  president-elect,  and then president of the State Association.
       DR. BROWN:        Will you tell us what some of the issues facing medicine were at that time?
      DR. DUNCAN:    It was in 1985 or so when the HIV virus first started showing up. So, when I became president in 1986-87, really they had just started identifying the virus and we had just started all of the discussion, public forums and public discussion about the HIV virus. I think that discussion probably on a national scale consumed much of the energy of the Medical Society that year and it certainly consumed my energy. I will never forget the first television program I was on soon after becoming president;  I was with Tom Faulkner on ETV and had a whole hour. I think the program was Carolina Scene, and it was a live broadcast  and we sat in a forum much like we are in right now. I think it was Tom Faulkner who has the program, and he asked me a few questions about admission to the State Medical  Society and what were we about, and those kinds of things and then a few questions about HIV. Then after about 15 or 20 minutes he opened up the telephone lines for live call-in questions. They were all on the HIV virus. So I think that was probably the single major issue. My major interest as president was in ethics  and I created a new committee for the State Medical Society at that time; it is


the Medical Ethics Committee. That whole year was committed to ethics, and our annual meeting in 1988 in Charleston had ethics as its theme. All of the speciality societies programs were geared to ethical applications in what they were doing. The speakers were all geared to that and it is the first time any State Medical Society in the country has basically dedicated their  annual meeting to that subject. And spinning off of that, we have had a very active Ethics Committee.
DR. BROWN:	Right,  and  everybody  appreciated  that  session  on ethics,  I

think.

      DR. DUNCA   :      We are continuing to have more sessions.  We don't  focus on it quite as much at the state meeting now as we used to, but we are still really a pretty doggone busy committee. One thing that I remember when we created that committee that was interesting to me, was to see how it  worked out politically that we have  a general policy, that to be a member of the committee of the State Medical Society you have to be a member of the State Medical Society. There is no other committee with people who aren't [members] except the Cardiac Rehabilitation  Committee.  So I placed on that committee two philosopher medical ethicists and two clergy medical ethicists. There was some concern by some members of the board at that time that 1) they were nonmembers  and   2) why do we need those kinds of people there?   My reply to them
was, and ultimately  this was understood by the board and there was no problem, that we

cannot do responsible biomedical ethics if we don't have those kinds of disciplines involved in the discussion.   And, you know, your association  at MUSC ... I don't  know


if you are aware of what is going on there now, but there is a very, very strong medical ethics committee at MUSC, and several of those persons are on our committee. Just outstanding!
DR. BROWN:	Right.  That is good.  Would you care to name some of those


persons?

DR. DUNCAN:



w
Well, from MUSC we have Dick Sosno ki, Bob Sade, John


Roberts, and Bert Keller who is the clergy person with the family practice program there, and now Jerry Kurent who has recently joined our committee; he is a neurologist there. Then from Columbia we have ora Bell who is a philosophy professor and the past chainnan  of the department  there at USC.   She is a medical  ethicist and she is starring a new medical ethics program at the medical school there. Doug McDonald is a professor from Funnan in medical ethics and philosophy and chairs the department there. Then other physicians from around the state. Myself, I currently chair that committee and it's lots of fun.
      DR. BROWN:      I am sure it is.  Now what about some other issues -- things like	reform and hazardous waste and these things?
      DR. D   CAN:   Well, all of these things were going on.  It seemed like there were a lot of things going on there. I know that Walt Roberts who preceded me as president,  and myself were both on the DHEC Hazardous Waste Task Force which was a big thing at that time. The Medical Society has become involved and had been active and involved in it.  One of our component societies from Sumter and Clarendon County


had introduced multiple resolutions from time to time about hazardous waste. Comprehensive health education was another big issue at that time. When we started work that year, Betsy Teny from Greenville, who was president of the auxiliary at that time, started the concept of the health education van that ultimately came to fruition during the next year when Tommy Rowland was president and the State Medical Society gave to the Department  of Education  the health van which was a big hit.  So that kind of reaching  out program  I thought  was very  important.
      DR. BROWN:        Do you want to say a word about the health van and what it is and exactly why we've  got that?
      DR. DUNCAN:     Well, it is sort of a spin-off of health education.  You know, one of the big deals at that time was comprehensive health education and in Greenville County we had been very active. When I say we -- the auxiliary in Greenville County and the Greenville County Medical Society, primarily the auxiliary -- had been instrumental in raising $300,000 to $400,000 to help fund the  science center at Roper Mountain which is a complex -- there is a planetarium and a lot of different things there, but there is a health classroom building through which Greenville County School District sends students. And one of them is a big health room that talks about all body systems, preventive health care, sex education and uses a lot of very sophisticated models and displays that were produced in Chicago.  Betsy Teny, who was interested  in that, came up with the idea that it would be great if the Medical Society could get together a health van that had the same sort of equipment  in it, that could move around the state in the


different school areas that were not fortunate enough to have a Roper Mountain  Science

Center,  and there was a model  for that.	think Texas had one and a couple of other

states had one.  So we were successful in being able to do that, and it is booked up, it is in gr at demand.

DR. BROWN: DR. DUNCA   :

It has been excellent.

It really has been.  They need another one. I will never forget

when Betsy Teny and i met with Charlie Williams, who at that time was the Superintendent of Education for SC. He had come to Furman University to attend some sort of meeting and we met with him out in one of the rooms there at Funnan. When we first presented the idea to him, he was quite suspicious, and then he ultimately got on the bandwagon big  time when he realized that we were really very serious; but we were talking about a $100,000-plus project. One remark he made to me which really made an impact was that this  was the first time that he could remember  the Medical Association
-- and Senator Vern Smith, who was the chair of the Senate Medical Affairs Committee, may even have been the one that made the remark that it was the first time the Medical Society has ever come to us to give us something· they have always wanted something from us.

DR. BROWN: DR. DUNCAn  : DR. BROWN:

Obviously correct.

I will never  forget  that.

now what else might you tell me about your presidency, what

went on during those years, anything that you can think of?  I think some of the major

accomplishments of your presidency we have mentioned -- the education and health van, AIDS problem, hazardous waste committee and all of these things. ow, is there anything else that you can think of?
      DR. DUNCAN: You know this was also a time, when I first came onto the board in the early l 980's, that we were going through a whole reorganization of the SCMA - and I was put on that committee. I remember we met a lot and did a lot of work. We had an outside consultant come in to help us with that, but during that period of time when I was chairman of the board and president, whatever, we had gone through a lot of looking at ourselves and evaluating who we were, what our mission was, how could we function better as a state society and better represent the physicians and the patients that we served, and that actually was completed right before  became chairman
of the board. That was the time, too, during that reorganization ·process  when Bill Mahon came on as our executive director, which was one of the most important things that has happened, I think, to our organization. Obviously reorganization was very important, but then finding a person of that caliber and ability to then take what had happened in the reorganization process and start to implement it and to guide it through -- Bill has just been an outstanding person for that. You know, presidents come and go. We are there for a year and you have to have some stable influence in any organization, and I just think that we are very fortunate to have had that kind of leadership to provide the stability. He has had just a passion for serving our organization and the physician members and through that the patients and the citizens of this state. He has an ability to



mold the individual personalities that each president has, the wants and desires.  I say this in all sincerity, because there were several times when Bill and I kind of butted heads on some issues, but we never  got on unfriendly terms. We might not have hugged each other every time we ran into each other, and I respect him so much for his ability to deal with whatever persona1ities come into that place on the board and just a strong stabilizing factor. There is a tremendous amount of continuity and stability with the way the board structure is set up under the reorganization and it has limited terms. You can't  serve on too many committees. So you spread out the influence and there is a much broader base of participation which helps to give it a stability and the ability to change. It's that strong leadership of Bill Mahon and of the staff that I think we in South Carolina are very fortunate to have.

DR. BROWN: DR. DUNCAN: DR. BROWN: DR. DUNCAN:

It makes a big difference in everything, doesn't it?

It really does.

Now you are still active in the association,  of course.

I serve as an alternate  delegate to the AMA  and today  was

elected to be delegate to the AMA which  will  start in the calendar year  1994.   I will finish  out the calendar  year as an alternate  delegate and become  a delegate.   So I am doing that and I still chair the Medical Ethics Committee.  When I say "still chair" I mean I now  chair  it.	I  was  not  on  the  committee  when  I created  it, but  I  came  on  the committee  after  I finished  my  tenure  as  past  president  and  then  recently  have  been chairman of that.  I really enjoyed that.  We meet once a month from 9:00 in the morning


until we get through and just  have really stimulated  discussions in there.


DR. BROWN:

DR. DUNCAN: DR. BROWN:

That is good.

Lots of challenges.

Great.   Of course, you still have to practice,  too, and make a..

living.

      DR. DUNCAN:	Full-time practice now and I'm back in the office a whole lot more than I was.  That was an experience, the time out of the office.

DR. BROWN:

DR. D	C

You had to do a lot of traveling during that.

Do a lot of traveling  and I think  that most physicians  don't


realize how much  time the average president spends out of the office and what impact that has on his or her practice . I know one physician who was at this m ering this year who basically had to retire when he got through. Well, he was a solo practitioner in obstetrics and gynecology and practice patterns just broke down tremendously in that situation. I'm an ophthalmologist and I am in a practice with a number of other physicians, so I had my calls taken care of pretty easily and my patients with emergencies were taken care of because I had the partners there; but I know what an impact it had on referral  patterns  and how much time I was out of the office and what impact that had. I really  salute persons who did it because it is a sacrifice.
       DR.   BROWN:	I agree with you, that is a tremendous sacrifice.   It is a real

honor to be in that position, but you give up a tremendous amount to do it and serve that much for the association.


      DR. DUNCAN:  One of the things on the outline here was - would you do it again? Yes would do it again. It is kind of like my daughter said.  She went out and spent a month in Wyoming with the National Outdoor Leadership School when she was 15 years old. They left base camp and she had a 52 lb. back pack on and was gone for 30 days.  When they came back she said, "Dad,  hated every minute of it, but I would do it again tomorrow.' I'd  start back and do it again tomorrow:-""

DR. BROWN:

DR. DUNCAN:

Do it again.

I didn't  hate every minute of it.   It was a lot of fun and a


wonderful experience, and I really found out that the doctors in this state are special, they are unique, and they are dedicated  and it was a lot of fun.
      DR. BROWN : I'm sure.  Would you care to mention any particular ones that might have been especially helpful to you? I know it is difficult to pick out a certain number because so many did help you.
      DR. D CAN: I think I've   already  mentioned  several  that  were  really important to me. Leonard Douglas who was such an important model for me, and Randy Smoak together who dedicated service not only to their patients but also to serving this society and the physicians that it represents . And doing it in the sense that that is what they felt like they needed to do and without being self-serving about it at all. I think their kind of leadership, particularly during the reorganization part, was so important to this organization and such an important example to me. Then people like Walt Roberts from Columbia, who is a fe11ow who never meets a stranger, that kind of guy, and just lots of


personalities  like that.  It's  been lots of fun.

      DR. BROWN :   Well,  good.   Now, what do you think  are the major  issues facing medicine today and where do you think medicine is headed? Are you real optimistic  about the practice of medicine?
      DR. DUNCAN :    I'm real optimistic about the practice of medicine.  It bothers me when I hear fellow physicians saying to their children or to young people, "Don't go into medicine." All of this stuff is going on and it is just not what it used to be. They are going to have to do a lot,. a lot to make medicine not a great thing to do and, even if the federal government took it over tomorrow, lock, stock, and barrel and tried to run the program like in England or some place like that, it is still going to be a great thing to do. So, yes, I am really optimistic about it and I don't  think that this country, either its politicians, bureaucrats, or its citizens are going to accept change that significantly compromises  the quality of health care that needs to be delivered or our ability to do that. I think we are going to see some significant changes, and I happen to be one of the few physicians that I have met that admits to voting for Bill Clinton, but I did and I am not unhappy that I did. I am concerned to some degree with  the way reforming the health care system seems to be going. I do hope that ultimately happens; that we are going to have, once the framework is laid down, health care reformation, and that is what I think obviously today is one of our major issues. It is the major issue that we in organized medicine are seeing.  I don't  think it should be.  I think we ought to be able to do that in a way that we can continue to provide access to care for all people, quality health care


for all people, and address some major issues out there other than reforming the health care system, but I think we must do that. I think ultimately this needs to move to a societal debate about what this society wants from the health care  system,. what do they
expect of it, what are they willing to support in changing it. I hate to start talking about where they want to pay for it. If we do in fact have limited resources, I think that society has to determine how those resources are going to be used in health care  delivery.  I don't
think I can do it as a physician . I don't think the politicians can do it alone. I think we have to do it collectively, and I hope what we are going to evolve to is some sort of a private/public sector partnership that is going to come out on the other side with something that is workable. I don't know what that is going to look like at all. It has been my experience in the meetings I am going to now, one thing that concerns me about
organized medicine is that we tend to look at it from a very narrow viewpoint.   This is a political issue, but it is a bipartisan issue. I was in a meeting this morning  when we were talking about some of this stuff, and everybody around there seemed to be saying, you know... look what Bill is doing to us and look what Hillary is doing to us. It is not Bill and Hillary. It is everybody - the Republicans and Democrats - and I sort of feel that if you could divide the country in half, give half of it to Republicans and half of it to Democrats, 10 years down the road you would see no difference in what the health care reformation  is going to look like.  It may happen a little faster and a little differently
with a democratic administration.   I don't  think it is going to be much different.

DR.  BROWN:	It probably won't.

      DR. DUNCAN:	And I am optimistic  about what it is going to be like because

I just don't believe that the public or our elected officials are going to devastate  our system and come up with something that we cannot be happy with.
DR. BROWN:	I am glad to hear you say that.  That sounds good. DR. DUNCAN   :	Well, I'm optimistic about it.
      DR. BROWN:	Absolutely. I'm going to get my two cents worth in here, too. What this country is all about is voting for the candidate of your choice. That's one thing.
DR. DUNCAN:	Absolutely,  it is.

      DR. BROWN:	The other thing is that medicine, no matter who controls it or anything, I think that, if a man or woman or boy or girl loves people and loves contact with people and loves to do things for people, then medicine, no matter who controls it or anything, medicine is the place to go.
      DR. DUNCAN: I agree with that. I really do. I think it is going to be done differently. I don't think there is any question about it, and there are going to be some changes. It concerns me when the attitude seems to say, change is inevitable. Well, I don't  know that that is the way to look at it.   The system needs to change.   There are
things we need to actively participate in, not just adopt the attitude that - well, it's inevitable, so let's see what we can do. We need to say yes, we need to change. I think it is obviously the place to be.
DR. BROWN :	Is there anything else that you can think of that you would


like   to bring up here?

      DR. DUNCAN: I don't think so. We have covered a lot.  One thing, too,  'II just mention here. You were talking about people. One thing I did when I was president was that about every 6-8 weeks I had breakfast in Columbia with some of the heads of major departments in government that dealt with health care. Mike Jarrett from the Department of Health and Environmental Control, Solomon from the Department of Social Services, I think Dr. Barnett at that time who was the Commissioner for the Department of Mental Health and other persons like that. We would get together and talk about common goals and where we were crossing over and those kinds of things. One thing that I saw happening because of those breakfasts and because of the efforts of Bill Mahon  our staff, Walt Roberts before me, and Tommy Rowland after me was that just a significant, significant increase in cooperation and respect among those state agencies and the Medical Society and how those groups started working in concert for the citizens and the people of the state. The person that I just admired so much was Mike Jarrett, who was one of the first, if not the first non-medical commissioner of DHEC.

DR. BROWN: DR. DUNCAN   :

Right.

I know there was some concern in the Medical Society that

he was not a physician when I first came on, but it didn't take very long at all for us to realize that this was a special, unique person, who thought it was so important for state agencies that dealt with health care issues to cooperate with, and work with, the State Medical Society.  We obviously had no control over him, but he didn't  do anything and


we didn't  do anything  that  we didn't  know  about,  that  we had  not shared  and talked about, and that sense of cooperativeness.   So I meant to say something about Mike earlier.


      DR. BROWN:	I'm glad you did because that was a cooperative effort. It was obvious to everybody who had anything to do with the association for years that this was a big change.
      DR. DUNCAN;        He was such an outstanding person.   Then the other person

I need to mention,  too, is Senator Vern Smith from Greer from our end of the state who was chairman of the Senate Medical Affairs Committee all through my time of being chairman of the board or president and president-elect, and who was involved in all of the legislative issues that we were involved with. Vern Smith is a strong champion of medicine and a strong champion for the people in this state to access that, and to provide quality health care. In fact, when I was president I gave him my President's Award for the service that he had provided  to the Medical Society and to the people of this state as chairman of the Senate Medical Affairs Committee.
      DR. BROWN:	I might add, when we were talking about Michael Jarrett, just for the record in the Archives, the Medical University, as you know, gave him an Honorary  Doctor's  Degree not long before his demise.
      DR. DUNCAN:   Yes, we have certainly  lost a special person, and   am glad you did that, because he certainly deserved that and any other award that you could think about to give him.


DR. BRO	Dr. Duncan, I want to thank you for taking care of this.

DR. DUNCAN:   Well, I thank you for the opportunity.   I thank you for calling

me and setting this up.  This is great.  I've enjoyed it.

      DR. BROWN:	I have enjoyed seeing all of you past presidents  and sort of renewing old friendships.   It's  been real nice.
DR. DUNCAN:	Well, I've  enjoyed it, too.  Thank you .